Yes, Putin has made The Great Patriotic War the ideological center piece of Russian history and the legitimating center for his regime. He has also resuscitated famous Russian units from WW2. These were all disbanded in the 1990s, but Putin brought them back to life starting around 2012; AND: these units have now been defeated on various axes of advance. For instance the 8th Guards Combined Arms Army was defeated and its commanding general Mordichev was killed early on, and Frolov the deputy commander was killed last week: but while few in the West will know this, this army is the lineal descendant of the famous 62nd Army, Chuikov's army the heroes at Stalingrad.
Again few in the West will know that the 150th Guards Rifle Division, which was also defeated in the first weeks of the war, is the division that pinned the Soviet Flag to the Reichstag in May 1945, central to the most famous Soviet photograph to come out of World War 2 (though that photograph was staged); its commander MItyaev has been killed. The First Guards Tank Army was defeated and its commander Sergei Kissel has disappared; this unit was founded in World War 2 by the legendary Soviet tankist Mikhail Katukov.
In American terms it would be like the 101st Airborne Division being defeated and its commander killed, as well as the 82nd Airborne Division being defeated and its commander killed.
So in this specific way, too, we can see Putin is swinging a wrecking-ball at Russian history.
Thanks for that Art. I'm pretty au fait with the Great Patriotic War but I didn't know about the 150th Guards Rifle Division. Another fringe benefit of signing up to this feed!...I must say the way modern Russians speak about this war you'd think they fought out of altruism.
Thanks, Michael. With communism thrown onto the trash-heap of history, the main pillar of legitimacy for the Putin State has become the victories of the Great Patriotic War. This is why Russians are being told they're fighting "Nazis" in Ukraine, when both the President of Ukraine and the Foreign Minister of Ukraine are Jews. It's literally unbelievable. Biut when Big Brother says 2 + 2 = 5, it is 5. Astounding lies like this are an attempted display of Power.
So, May 9 will be important to Putin. Dates are important to Putin: he bagan this terrible war on February 24: the anniversary of Ukraine's breakaway from Russia Maidan Revolution in 2014.
I keep wondering what the books will say, in 40 years, and whether they’ll conclude that Putin suckered for an incredible sting. Someone needs to write a novel now about an old adversary planting ideas for an unwinnable war in a leader’s mind with the most audacious intelligence op ever staged.
It’s remarkable how beneficial this debacle is to the west. No wonder Biden has little interest in leading an effort to broker peace.
No need for conspiracies. As this very post remarks, most governments are perfectly capable of deluding themselves without being suckered by evil foreigners.
Gee I'm glad I got a subscription to this! What worries me is that Putin, who controls the media is allowing commentators and media commentators to be more hysterical, unhinged and in some cases openly genocidal than Putin and his government officials. Far from helping prepare the Russian people for disappointments and a long, hard war they are setting them up for fierce commitment to unobtainable goals. I can't see any chance of conquering Kyiv, for example, and that seems to be almost a minimal demand. Perhaps Putin wants to look more statesmen like and moderate by letting such talk on the air but it's further boxing him in.
I can't see Putin ever admitting defeat and I certainly think he'd accept "a niggling war of attrition' going on indefinitely to bringing back the troops. But will it just be a 'niggle?' The war is only 1 1/2 months old. War weariness is very common in fighting nations but it usually takes months or years. He might control the media but Putin won't be able to control the talk of angry veterans, the war wounded and the bereaved and they'll find plenty of willing listeners, some of whom will be great gossips. The contrast between what people hear and what they get from state media will be stark and will undermine Putin's great strength - public trust in his state media.
Even under-fed and poorly supplied armies are expensive, especially if they're posted abroad as occupying forces and the Russian economy is at the beginning of what looks an extended nose dive. My feeling is that an extended war of attrition will niggle the Russian populace in the way a perforated bowel does. Just give it time. The Ukrainians aren't going anywhere and the prospect of them accepting Russian occupation of any part of their country is every bit as likely as Putin admitting defeat.
Many years ago my father, a career military officer, gave me his copy of "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence"
by Norman F. Dixon. I gather there is a sequel on the combination of authoritarian personality with general or baseline incompetence. We may be witnessing an example of this phenomenon.
Yes, RS Laking, I don't think there's any doubt we are witnessing Russian incompetence on a very great scale. An army with the size and equipment advantages (amounts and quality) the Russians had doesn't fail to beat their opponents without doing a lot of things wrong.
Some pundits have made comparisons with the Russian invasion of Finland. That's close but not apt. The Russians eventually won that one but I recon they've shot their bolt in Ukraine. The question is whether the Ukrainians will manage to expel the Russians or if we'll reach a bloody stalemate. Furthermore, my money would be on the Russians 'losing' a bloody stalemate. War weariness at home (you can't keep tens of thousands of dead and injured secret) and a steadily worsening economy will eventually tell. The Ukrainians aren't going anywhere and Putin won't live/reign forever.
Yes, Putin has made The Great Patriotic War the ideological center piece of Russian history and the legitimating center for his regime. He has also resuscitated famous Russian units from WW2. These were all disbanded in the 1990s, but Putin brought them back to life starting around 2012; AND: these units have now been defeated on various axes of advance. For instance the 8th Guards Combined Arms Army was defeated and its commanding general Mordichev was killed early on, and Frolov the deputy commander was killed last week: but while few in the West will know this, this army is the lineal descendant of the famous 62nd Army, Chuikov's army the heroes at Stalingrad.
Again few in the West will know that the 150th Guards Rifle Division, which was also defeated in the first weeks of the war, is the division that pinned the Soviet Flag to the Reichstag in May 1945, central to the most famous Soviet photograph to come out of World War 2 (though that photograph was staged); its commander MItyaev has been killed. The First Guards Tank Army was defeated and its commander Sergei Kissel has disappared; this unit was founded in World War 2 by the legendary Soviet tankist Mikhail Katukov.
In American terms it would be like the 101st Airborne Division being defeated and its commander killed, as well as the 82nd Airborne Division being defeated and its commander killed.
So in this specific way, too, we can see Putin is swinging a wrecking-ball at Russian history.
Thanks for that Art. I'm pretty au fait with the Great Patriotic War but I didn't know about the 150th Guards Rifle Division. Another fringe benefit of signing up to this feed!...I must say the way modern Russians speak about this war you'd think they fought out of altruism.
Thanks, Michael. With communism thrown onto the trash-heap of history, the main pillar of legitimacy for the Putin State has become the victories of the Great Patriotic War. This is why Russians are being told they're fighting "Nazis" in Ukraine, when both the President of Ukraine and the Foreign Minister of Ukraine are Jews. It's literally unbelievable. Biut when Big Brother says 2 + 2 = 5, it is 5. Astounding lies like this are an attempted display of Power.
So, May 9 will be important to Putin. Dates are important to Putin: he bagan this terrible war on February 24: the anniversary of Ukraine's breakaway from Russia Maidan Revolution in 2014.
I keep wondering what the books will say, in 40 years, and whether they’ll conclude that Putin suckered for an incredible sting. Someone needs to write a novel now about an old adversary planting ideas for an unwinnable war in a leader’s mind with the most audacious intelligence op ever staged.
It’s remarkable how beneficial this debacle is to the west. No wonder Biden has little interest in leading an effort to broker peace.
No need for conspiracies. As this very post remarks, most governments are perfectly capable of deluding themselves without being suckered by evil foreigners.
It doesn't need to be an evil foreigner, it could be a devious and power-hungry underling who wants to make the boss look really bad.
Too risky. If the Putin regime becomes more unstable, Putin will become more paranoid, taking it out on underlings (he’s already doing that).
Too right they are!
Gee I'm glad I got a subscription to this! What worries me is that Putin, who controls the media is allowing commentators and media commentators to be more hysterical, unhinged and in some cases openly genocidal than Putin and his government officials. Far from helping prepare the Russian people for disappointments and a long, hard war they are setting them up for fierce commitment to unobtainable goals. I can't see any chance of conquering Kyiv, for example, and that seems to be almost a minimal demand. Perhaps Putin wants to look more statesmen like and moderate by letting such talk on the air but it's further boxing him in.
I can't see Putin ever admitting defeat and I certainly think he'd accept "a niggling war of attrition' going on indefinitely to bringing back the troops. But will it just be a 'niggle?' The war is only 1 1/2 months old. War weariness is very common in fighting nations but it usually takes months or years. He might control the media but Putin won't be able to control the talk of angry veterans, the war wounded and the bereaved and they'll find plenty of willing listeners, some of whom will be great gossips. The contrast between what people hear and what they get from state media will be stark and will undermine Putin's great strength - public trust in his state media.
Even under-fed and poorly supplied armies are expensive, especially if they're posted abroad as occupying forces and the Russian economy is at the beginning of what looks an extended nose dive. My feeling is that an extended war of attrition will niggle the Russian populace in the way a perforated bowel does. Just give it time. The Ukrainians aren't going anywhere and the prospect of them accepting Russian occupation of any part of their country is every bit as likely as Putin admitting defeat.
Many years ago my father, a career military officer, gave me his copy of "On the Psychology of Military Incompetence"
by Norman F. Dixon. I gather there is a sequel on the combination of authoritarian personality with general or baseline incompetence. We may be witnessing an example of this phenomenon.
Yes, RS Laking, I don't think there's any doubt we are witnessing Russian incompetence on a very great scale. An army with the size and equipment advantages (amounts and quality) the Russians had doesn't fail to beat their opponents without doing a lot of things wrong.
Some pundits have made comparisons with the Russian invasion of Finland. That's close but not apt. The Russians eventually won that one but I recon they've shot their bolt in Ukraine. The question is whether the Ukrainians will manage to expel the Russians or if we'll reach a bloody stalemate. Furthermore, my money would be on the Russians 'losing' a bloody stalemate. War weariness at home (you can't keep tens of thousands of dead and injured secret) and a steadily worsening economy will eventually tell. The Ukrainians aren't going anywhere and Putin won't live/reign forever.